FlashesAPBlackboard

Monday, January 12, 2009

FIRST BLACKBOARD TOPIC FOR THE NEW YEAR-
Mrs. Moore said...: Blackboard Topic - Week of 12 January:

In the viewpoint question on page 18 of your text, literary historian David Daiches suggests that there is an underlying "ideal of nobility" in the tale of Beowulf as well as in much other ancient literature. What, exactly, is this "ideal of nobility?" How can we define it?

What about the literature (including film) of our own time? Do you see an underlying ideal of nobility in the works we produce, or is it necessary to view an era from afar in order to detect the kind of nobility we see in a figure like Beowulf?

33 comments:

Anonymous said...: An underlying sense of nobility (at least in my opinion, since nobility is a very subjective concept, I am sure my concept differs from that of others, as do theirs from countless others) still exists in art and even in music. I do not believe that it is heavily present in mainstream art, movies, music, or the such, but I believe that independent film companies and especially independent record companies continue to create work that indeed displays a sense of nobility. This simply is not seen in the mainstream culture. However, subjectively, this nobility is also not seen in mainstream culture.
The current era we live in was largely spawned by the counter-cultural movement of the 1960s. I would agree with Francis Schaeffer on his analysis of this era taken from How Should We Then Live?: "After the turmoil of the sixties, many people thought that it was so much better when the universities quieted down in the early seventies. I could have wept. The young people had been right in their analysis, though wrong in their solutions."
This solution was not only one brought up in the 1960's counter-culture but brought up in every counter-culture once it becomes the basis of conformance and indeed becomes the culture; it is, in the words of Aleister Crowley: "Do what thou wilt is the whole of the law."
With no standing foundation for ethics or morality, the individual is left only to the cold ethics of instant gratification. The ethics here are simple: they're nonexistent.
But what we live in today is a society built not on ethics or morale but a disregard for ethics and morale. In the pursuit of political correctness and group think we have created a society of people dulled to the point of seeing everything as a perceptional matter and in the words of G.K. Chesterton: "to thinking that even the tables of multiplication are a mere matter of perception".
The so-called ideals of political correctness and group-think have had devastating consequences: afraid to stand out and define anything as WRONG, we sit back and define it as DIFFERENT. Thus, the society has lost its integrity in pursuit of not hurting feelings. Thus in this manner America has become an invertebrate amongst the nations. Not that Old Europe hasn't followed our path, or rather, we have followed theirs...
Thus as a society not only do we tolerate the pursuit of instant gratification over morale but we PROMOTE it as well.
Perhaps the recent movie Notorious shows it best. Notorious is the story of Biggie Smalls, the rapper who some of you might be familiar with was killed shortly after Tupac.
Hip Hop is possibly the best example of the decline example of society in this respect. True artists like Chuck D and Flavor Flav renounced racism, brutality, and sexism with their rhymes while in Public Enemy. Of course, hip hop has declined. Biggie Smalls is the highlight of this decline. As is Tupac. I hope the movie shows this in its true light.
What's sickening is that we live in a society where Malcolm X and Dr. King were SHOT whereas Tupac and Biggie Smalls were ASSASSINATED. As Dr. Cornel West, states so well, we have gone from a world of "King to bling".
Of course, this is not only evident in hip hop culture but most of American culture, which in the entertainment and media world is marked by sexism which even infiltrates the feminist movement, violence which infiltrates all aspects of life, and a genuine, though subconscious, defiance of democratic principles. Worst of all, a defiance of morale.
However, this is the MAINSTREAM culture. The counter-culture, the "Do what thou wilts", to quote Crowley again, are now the mainstream culture.
However, this is not simply a phenomena of modern society. Rather, it is a phenomena of any culture without a strong (yet tolerant) monotheistic presence and basis of life. This nation thrives...or let me correct, THRIVED...not primarily because of Greek influence or progressive principle or democratic principle but rather a Judeo-Christian ethic...
In this way I would say the society of Beowulf too lacks nobility. Bragging is seen as noble. Doing a good deed not for its value to society but for the praise one receives, the so-called "immortality" is not nobility by my definition. In fact, I see this as an antithesis of nobility.

"Impartiality is a pompous name for indifference, which is an elegant name for ignorance."--G.K. Chesterton; January 12, 2009 at 8:18 PM
Stephanie said...: The exact definition for the term noble is: having high moral quality. For the time period of Beowulf, I believe that there was an underlying sense of nobility. Although there were some primitive parts, such as when Beowulf tore off Grendel's arm and hung it from the rafters in Herot, the people still defined parts of life, such as a hero, with noble qualities. Courage and loyalty are two of those qualities, and people today would still agree that those two are in fact noble. I do agree with Alex that boasting does not really seem like a noble quality. However, this is an example to show that times and ideas do change, and while we feel that boasting is very much the opposite of noble, the people of that era thought it made up part of a hero.
In the epic poem of Beowulf, we read about Wiglaf and how he stepped to Beowulf's side during his time of need. Since he was family, Beowulf knew right away that he could be trustworthy and rule after he died. Another example of trust is when Hrothgar allowed the Geats to fully take control to try to save his peoples' lives. In my opinion, being trustworthy is strong part of nobility. In the world today, we have almost erased that quality, now that we have passwords for everything and locks on everything that can be opened. We have to sign contracts so we can be held to our word. Many, many years ago, trustworthiness made cultures noble in ways that we will never be.; January 13, 2009 at 3:52 PM
Anonymous said...: Ideas do change. This is part of the problem with a society not rooted in some form of higher ideals. Francis Schaeffer ponders upon this principle in How Should We Then Live when speaking of the Greeks and the Romans:
"The Greeks and later the Romans also tried to build society upon their gods. But these gods were not big enough because they were finite, limited. Even all their gods put together were not infinite. Actually, the gods in Greek and Roman thinking were like men and women larger than life...The gods were amplified humanity, not divinity...Rome did not fall because of external forces such as the invasion by the barbarians. Rome had no sufficient inward base..."
No society can survive on the basis of a finite god. The society of Beowulf lives on the basis of a finite god. In this circumstance, the finite god is the self. Heroic deeds are seen as the elements that make the product of godliness and immortality.
Where is a definition of nobility that is not finite? Whose definition is a constant? To say that the definition of nobility is finite is to in essence say that nobility does not exist. If all is open to perception and change of time and culture then a firefighter is no more noble than say Charles Manson.
I am not arguing that society has progressed. All of you here know me better than to think I would argue such an optimistic stance. I am not entirely sure I am arguing that society has progressed backwards, either. I feel, however, that there are signs suggesting that society has not de-evolved...
The state of humanity can be seen as a constant with little interference of bouts of tolerance, ethics, and genuine caring. That being said, I do not believe that there was any "Golden Age" in the history of the world. My reasoning is simple...human beings have never ceased to be human beings.; January 13, 2009 at 5:40 PM
AliSucksAtBlogging said...: The definition of ideal is “an ultimate object or aim of endeavor.” In Beowulf, there most certainly is an underlying ideal of nobility. It is the motivation for all of Beowulf’s actions. He speaks multiple times of wanting glory, of needing glory. Although compassion and duty to others may have been a factor in Beowulf’s decision to fight Grendel, ultimately he made the decision based on his own motives, and how it would be beneficial for himself.
Beowulf’s motivation is what allows us to be able to relate to him. If Beowulf was merely a courageous, strong, self-sacrificing leader who wanted only to help others, it’s probable that we wouldn’t be reading the epic in our AP English class today. Who knows if the tale would have even lasted through the centuries had this been the character of Beowulf? As flaw-filled human beings, incredible heroes with selfish motives and flaws just like our own make us feel better about ourselves. It keeps the story interesting. We don’t want to know of other mortal’s perfection when we can’t obtain it ourselves.
Beowulf’s quest for nobility (defined as “the state or quality of being exalted in character”) is extremely human. Many of us want to be remembered in some way or other after we pass on. We want glory. We want some sort of honor. We want to believe that we’ve made an impact on others. We want our memory to live on long after we take our last breaths. It’s another way mortals seek immortality. If there’s no way to exist forever, perhaps we can be remembered forever.
Just as this is the main motivation for Beowulf’s heroic actions, perhaps it is motivation for us all. How many people "do good” simply for “doing good”? As complex creatures, our decisions are made using complex thought. Perhaps we do the right thing based on pure intentions, but this is not always the case.Often we do the right thing to avoid punishment, to be liked by others, to be held in high esteem. There have been many times when I have done “the right thing” when the very thought appalled me. So why did I do it? As human beings, we want more. Right or wrong, it’s true. Concrete or abstract, these wants drive society today. Sometimes it hurts society and has caused a massive amount of crime and corruption. But other times, as in “Beowulf”, it is one of the sole causes of the good evident in the world. As long as we remain human, full of imperfections, we need that drive, that motivation. In Beowulf there most definitely is an underlying ideal of nobility, and from the looks of it, society hasn’t changed as much as we thought.; January 14, 2009 at 12:49 PM
Shannon said...: I think that nobility is a dying thing. People now are more concerned with pleasing themselves and worrying about what others think about them. I believe that to truly be noble one must put aside all of these concerns and worries. Nobility, like excellence, lies within. Think of the people we hold as noble. For example Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. He was concidered to be a noble person because of his constant determination to succeed and make a difference. Just as Dr. King was noble in his time, so was Beowulf. Yes, I know that these are two completely different time periods but the same holds true. These men were not in love with themselves the way most of America is today. They were noble heroes of thier times. But, because nobility is dying, our generation, if not ours, our childrens generation, may cease to ever see a noble man (MAN MEANING MANKIND) walk the earth again.; January 14, 2009 at 2:55 PM
Anonymous said...: There is an underlying sense of nobility in Beowulf. We talked in class today about period ideas; one being that Beowulf displayed Grendel's head to evoke fear. That is not necessarily noble then, or now(but boasting was important then). However, there are also times when nobility is recognized. The soldiers that were loyal, and didn't give up on Beowulf for example. Showing a display of courage is definitely noble.
Beowulf is all about fame. It's true he adventures across the ocean when help is needed, but he is really after achieving his own glory. So what? Humans are selfish. Everybody wants something different. For Beowulf, it was fame. During the time of Beowulf, I'm sure that wanting to achieve fame wasn't all that rare.; January 14, 2009 at 3:16 PM
Anonymous said...: During the time of Beowulf, being famous could have been viewed as noble. Imagine being the average person in Herot, and seeing Beowulf parade around killing horrific beasts. You would be impressed, and probably think Beowulf was noble. It's true that Beowulf has his downfalls (like the crude displays of mangled body parts), but who doesn't?
Think of Lancelot. He was a noble knight, and did lots of good deeds. However, he wasn't always as well behaved in his personal life (cough, Guinevere). However, he really did love her, and even though he was betraying Arthur, we are still able to look at Lancelot and think the is noble.; January 14, 2009 at 3:28 PM
Unknown said...: I agree with most the people that have posted about there being an underlying “ideal of nobility.” Beowulf shows nobility in how he comes to help people. This doesn’t excuse him from his barbaric behavior, but he still tries to do what is right. Now Shannon made a commit that really caught me off guard because I disagree. I do not think that nobility is a dying art. I think it is more evident than one can see. We are just too critical on certain people so we really don’t see their noble acts. Alex said that he doesn’t think that nobility is in the mainstream media, but I can think of a couple movies that have these noble figures. The movies are “Sergeant York” (1941), “Superman” (1978), “Gladiator” (2000), and “Evelyn” (2002). All of these movies weren’t made in the same year and they all don’t have the same plot, but they do all have a character that has this nobility that is awesome. “Sergeant York” and “Evelyn” are both based off of a true story, so the acts of nobility in these movies actually happened. “Sergeant York” takes place in World War I and he doesn’t want to go and fight, since he doesn’t want to kill anyone. He later ends up single-handedly saving his troop by tricking the German soldiers. He risked his life to save his friends and tried not to kill anyone. “Evelyn” is about a father who is trying to win back his children to give them a better life. Both of these movies are touching and brings a great sense to moviegoers, since they know that these two men fought for what is right. “Superman” and “Gladiator” both have lead characters that do what is right, even if it means going against the one who has the power. Nobility is in other movies as well, but the list is too numerous to name all of the other ones. I think people just don’t pay attention enough to see the good in some characters. Nobility may look like it’s dying, but if you have a keen eye then you will be able to spot the glimmer in the characters.; January 14, 2009 at 4:32 PM
Anonymous said...: Embracing mortality means more to me than to simply accept that I will die and become the culinary delight of worms...
I suppose that I hope I have helped someone in this life. I hope I have been there for some one when he or she was down. I hope I have assisted one. I hope that in some manner that at some point in time I have helped my fellow man.
Part of the reason I have trouble relating to Beowulf seeing him as others is because I do not understand the concept of fame. A quote from Aristotle affected me a long time ago. It said something to the effect of all will be forgotten over time. Kansas says it as well:
"Don't hang on
Nothing lasts forever but the Earth and sky.
All we are is dust in the wind."
The only immortality I care for is the one I hope I receive if I am in good favor with the lord. I can't particularly say I care to leave a legacy. If I have helped someone in this life, I am happy, and perfectly content to be forgotten when I have long gone.; January 14, 2009 at 6:41 PM
Anonymous said...: A sense of nobility does exist in Beowulf. I believe it exists in Beowulf himself. He is the hero that comes from nowhere and slays the evil monster. He then shows respect for the kingdom which he killed the monster for by taking a trophy.
He also has many noble qualities. He has mighty amount of courage and respect, even for the monster, and he has honor as well. These are qualities that their culture, as well as our culture even, believes as noble. Like many of us already said he also has a great sense of bragging in him. In their culture that was extremely noble. A hero was always supposed to boast of his travels and victories. However now we would see that as the opposite of noble.
In our times there is an underlying sense of nobility in life everyday. Each time you see a person let another person out in traffic or hold a door open for someone that is the idea of nobility. Yes you may say it is polite, but isn't politeness noble? SO therefore yes I elieve that there is a sense of nobility in our culture but it is just not as obvious to us.; January 15, 2009 at 3:03 AM
Anonymous said...: If concepts such as nobility are able to change with the transitions of cultures then the concept of nobility itself will change.
What is the point of the concept then? What is the point of ethics or morale if it all can be justified with a "change in the times"? Where is the line drawn for this? In the 1940's, theoretically, the SS then consisted of the most noble Germans?; January 15, 2009 at 7:58 AM
Alex S. said...: Nobility is a subjective concept as Alex said, so it is hard to define it. The underlying sense of nobility changes as the times change. The ideas and culture was different in the time of "Beowulf". During that time, the ideas about how to fight nobily were different than that of today, but there is still nobility today. One example of nobility back then that would not be considered nobility today would be the idea of boasting. This is actually seen as more of the opposite of nobility. Beowulf held the head of Grendel's mother and brought it to the table where they were eating. This was Beowulf boasting and trying to reinforce his dominance as a great warrior. This action made him seem very noble, but in today's time period, the same action would not be seen as nobile. If someone brought a head to the table, people would think that that person was crazy. This is a great example of how times change. Things that were once seen as noble are not necessarily viewed as noble today.
In the movie "The Lord of the Rings" there is a sense of nobility. Frodo takes that ring no matter what and will not give up, he was determined to throw the ring into the molten lava at Mt. Doom. Also, the fellowship of the ring is a great example. They stayed by Frodo's side no matter what. None of them gave up, they just kept fighting to get to Mt. Doom and get rid of the ring once and for all. The underlying sense of nobility is very evident in this movie.; January 15, 2009 at 1:36 PM
Kyleigh G. said...: Nobility seems to be a concept that has been lost over the centuries in the individuals desire to rise to the top of society. Nobility, along with honor and fame, perhaps hasn't been lost, but actually has changed shape and form so much that it no longer mirrors the concepts that the people of the past had for nobility, fame, and honor. In the time of Beowulf, nobility was courage with compassion, fame was leaving a legacy, and honor was something that usually came after death. Works such as Beowulf support the concepts of the era. Then in the 16th through 18th century, nobility became the upper class, fame was being a part of high society, and honor was beginning to be desired during life when an individual was there to accept it. Literary works of these time periods touch on these concepts of social classes and the struggles faced to bring honor to self and family. Today, nobility, fame, and honor can be thought of as donations, celebrity, and being recognized for the two as soon as possible. It seems we want to wait for nothing. We are all in a hurry. We are focused on those in the spotlight. The charities they give to, the movies they make, and the awards they receive for them. I do believe however that we have not lost sight of what nobility used to be and that shows in books and movies of our day where the kind and courageous individuals make a difference in the world, help others, and are honored for it.; January 15, 2009 at 4:29 PM
Anonymous said...: Alex S, I couldn't agree more when you say that nobility is present in The Lord of the Rings. Yes, I too think that Frodo was noble. A character that I personally think is the best example, however, is Aragorn though. He, unlike Beowulf does NOT want fame. He is the true heir to the throne, and instead of trying to seize it, he remains in battle leading men, elves, etc. into battle. I think that "Strider" also shows a true sense of nobility because he never ever shows want for the ring. Aragorn proves he is noble by always accepting the responsibility he feels accountable for; or following Gandalf's wise leadership and orders. Aragorn is also extremely loyal. He is willing to die up until the very last battle, when his defenses are completely outnumbered, so Frodo can get to Mount Doom. He was loyal to all members in the fellowship. He was also loyal to Arwen. Aragorn shows many characteristics of nobility.; January 15, 2009 at 4:30 PM
Unknown said...: The definition of noble that I like most is: “admirable in dignity of conception, manner of expression, execution, or composition”. According to this definition, I would say that there is a degree of nobility in the epic Beowulf, but I would NOT say that it is based on the ideal of nobility. There is a definite difference in seeing some of Beowulf's actions being based on higher-than-average morals and saying that all of his motives are noble. For example, I find it rather noble that Beowulf would stand up for the Danes even after he had already fulfilled his promise to kill Grendel. To me, this is very noble of Beowulf. If he was truly not driven by anything deeper than selfish gain, he would have told the Danes that they were out of luck and left for his homeland. But since he had saved them once, he felt a noble responsibility to them to defend them again. I feel that this definitely shows a nobility of the human race. I think that everyone knows how to be noble, but not all choose to be.

Since I think that everyone has a bit of nobility deep down, I also believe that it can be found in today's society. No, it may not be very apparent in everything our society produces, but I think some examples can still be found. I liked Alex's example from “The Lord of the Rings”, although I can't ignore the fact that the story that the movies were based on was written during World War II. So perhaps our society today is not producing art of their own that displays nobility. It seems as though we almost must take it from another time. Would this, then, explain why there are so many remakes of old movies and stories coming out today? Could this be an explanation for all the “throw-backs” like Batman and the Hulk and so on? Perhaps our society has lost touch with nobility. And yet, it still seems to be able to respect it when it finds it in works of the past. I believe we know what nobility is, but are having a hard time producing any of it ourselves.; January 15, 2009 at 6:35 PM
Anonymous said...: In my opinion, history works in a circular pattern not a linear pattern. In other words, "history repeats itself". There is no evolution in human thought or interaction. Likewise, there is no de-evolution either (this is a point I still ponder, so I am not entirely sure on my opinion on this).
To say that nobility disappeared is a bit misleading to me. The authors of the day have a tendency to praise the era in which they live. Stephen Crane's writings of the South create an image that never comes to mind to many of us. Likewise, Himmler's writings glorify the era of Hitler in Germany. The writings of Malory glorify the era of knighthood, though the words of White probably ring much more true to the era...
When we talk of the "nobility" of ancient civilizations we are going by their words. In other words, we are going by a partisan viewpoint. For example, I record CDs. If you were to ask me how I feel about the CD, I would probably be pretty proud. But of course I would be. It's my CD. I mixed it and recorded it to my likes. You'd be much better off to ask someone else who has the CD other than me if you want an honest judgement.
So turning to Homer to gain an idea of Greek "excellence" or turning to the various authors of Beowulf to get an idea of "nobility" really is quite partisan. Of course you don't get the entire truth. It would be like asking a Congressman to dig up dirt on somebody in their party (but honestly, wouldn't the world be a better place if they would?). It simply won't happen. The writing is partisan.
There will always be the few who are noble surrounding by the many who are not. There will always be a few sheep in a world full of wolves.
The intolerance and injustice has always been present throughout the history of the world. Only the mechanisms to carry it out have "advanced", and I use this in the loosest sense of the word.; January 16, 2009 at 12:06 PM
Stephanie said...: Kyleigh mentions that nobility becomes the upper class during the sixteenth through eighteenth centuries. It bothers me that the base word for nobility (noble) came to represent a class that was noble only about half the time. In some cases, obviously, the wealthy nobility gives money to the poor or helps their countries. However, during the era of extreme power for the Catholic church, these "nobles" were the ones paying for church job positions in order to make money off charging the people for the sacraments. I think making people pay so they can get into Heaven is far from a noble deed, especially since these nobles were pocketing the money.
Maybe today we don't charge money to go to Heaven, but we are not exactly the epitome of noble either. During Beowulf's time, the people had Beowulf, who they could trust and look up to. Now it is a struggle to find a hero who you really can model yourself after. All of the young girls are going wild for Miley Cyrus, but how long will she be able to live up to their dreams? She already got in trouble for having some questionable photos and she is only sixteen. Its sad that we can't have a true noble hero in the world today.; January 17, 2009 at 4:36 AM
Anonymous said...: I think an example of nobility would be Bob Marley. He was a true believer in rastafarianism, and to a lot of people a hero. Marley wrote songs about the oppressions of black people, mainly people living in the slums of Jamaica. Songs like One Love, and Redemption Song show he is a lyrical genius. Other than his striking music, I think the best proof of his nobility happened in 1976. He was going to perform a free concert in the slums of Jamaica to emphasize peace against the factions at war, who were bringing murder and chaos to the city. An assassin attempted to murder him, but only shot and wounded him. But he was so determined to try and send a message of peace that the next day he still went on stage and performed, against the gun man's orders. I think that Bob Marley shows selflessness, sacrifice, and determination are noble. He really wanted to try to help bring peace, and his nobility shined through the hardships.; January 18, 2009 at 10:57 AM
Kyleigh G. said...: The more I think about this concept of nobility, the more confused I get. I can look up the definition of the word in the dictionary but as we all know, the definitions can never cover the whole meaning of the word. There is always a deeper meaning. Just like we all have our own concepts of EXCELLENCE (wow, it brings pain to my soul just to type this word again) we each have our own concept of nobility. I personally can't quite put my finger on my own personal definition of nobility. The characteristics that we seem to pair up with nobility are courage, loyalty, and strength. I guess I believe that the person who shows the greatest amount of nobility is one who is courageous when no one is watching, loyal when they have been betrayed, and strong enough to overcome whatever life throws their way.
As honors students (yes, I did say "honors" students.hahaha...) I think we all give our best effort in just about everything we do. We try our hardest to go above and beyond knowing that we will not be praised for it because it is simply expected of us, but we still try! So here's to all you noble honors students for having the courage to take on the honors classes, the loyalty to the program and giving 100% effort in the honors classes, and the strength to come back to the honors classes every day and not lose hope in yourself.
Nobility to me is more impressive when people aren't going to pat you on the back for the good that you do.; January 18, 2009 at 6:24 PM
Kyleigh G. said...: “It is better to try to be something to someone than to try and be everything to everyone and fail."
I thought this quote that I found while searching for a different quote that I couldn't find fit Alex’s attitude about life. Why do we tend to think that only doing big things makes a difference? Why do we think we need to please everyone? Why do we get so serious about life and hung up on what everyone else thinks? The truth is, YOU CANNOT PLEASE EVERYONE. No matter how hard you try or how hard you work there will always be a few who aren't pleased. The biggest problem with that is that we have to learn that from experience, accept it, and move on. "Move on" being the hardest part. Sometimes it's easier to try and please or try and help just one person. Even though they may be just one, it still makes a difference.
I also, like Alex, hope that I have helped at least one person in my lifetime. I try to live by the "To the world you might be one person, but to one person you might be the world" way of life. I try to remember, and fail to remember this at times, that making a small difference is still making a difference. Helping 1,000 people is just as noble as helping 1 person.
A noble act to me should not be measured by the number of people it touches, but by how touched one person is.; January 18, 2009 at 8:46 PM
AliSucksAtBlogging said...: I think that nobility still exists today. People still do things for the right reasons. We are all just to dang critical of ourselves and each other to realize it. We are never good enough. Right? No matter what you do you will never be good enough. Good enough for what or whom I’m not sure, but it is what it is. As Kyleigh said, “you can’t please everyone”. As a society we dwell on the negative. We criticize everything- the government, celebrities, the church, ourselves, the human race, the modern concept of nobility…the list goes on and on. Why do we do this? I do it all the time and quite frankly, I am not sure why complaint and negativity comes so easily for myself and others. Is the world such a terrible place that its inhabitants today could actually question the existence of nobility altogether? Yes, bad things happen. Bad things will continuously happen. Why should these bad things override the good though? Yes, good things happen as well. Good things will continue to happen. The world really is quite reliable. The point is, we can’t always look back on the past and pretend that it was such a better place than the present. It wasn’t. Bad things happened there too. The world isn’t a horrific monster out to gut us (yet) so maybe we should stop acting like it. Everyone has problems. Everyone eventually has to deal in one way or another. Does it suck? Absolutely, but is doesn’t suck all the time. The world and its people can actually be pretty amazing if you give it and them a chance.
It’s impossible to always see the good, but maybe if we simply remember its there life will seem a little better. Nobility exists today. I do not question its existence. Others may view this as naivety, but I view it as faith. I have faith in the people of this planet. Maybe I’m a glutton for punishment, maybe not. I guess we’ll see. Until then I’m just going to live. Live through the bad, and live through the good until I’m not living at all. Remember, there’s no day but today. Live it. Embrace it. In the words of the ever noble Bob Marley (completely agree with you Beth) “You just can’t live in that negative way; make way for the positive day; January 18, 2009 at 11:04 PM
AliSucksAtBlogging said...: This is completely unrelated to the topic, but by chance do you know what day our test will be Mrs. Moore? Thanks.; January 19, 2009 at 9:00 AM
Mrs. Moore said...: More than likely, the Ancient Lit test will be Friday, Jan 23 - our vocab test will be moved to next Tuesday, Jan 27.; January 19, 2009 at 9:14 AM
Stephanie said...: I was intrigued by Alison's comment that she has faith in the people of the planet. I always seem to see how negative our world is becoming, but maybe that is because I have no faith in the people. Maybe there is a nobility here today that we all need to open our eyes to instead of bringing up the bad of earth so easily. We can stop focusing on the vulgar song lyrics and graphic violence of movies and the fear of death or heartbreak or just something else that is negative. Just because a majority of the world SEEMS to be bad does not mean it is. I said before that we no longer can trust anyone or anything in our society. That is true in most cases. However, we should rejoice in the times when someone returns a missing wallet or phone, or when someone rescues another person or animal by risking his or her life. That is nobility. Even if we don't have an amazing, famous hero who saves the day, there is nobility in the world. I do fear that it could become a dying art, as Shannon said, but it will never completely die because of the people in the world who still believe it is important to be "noble," people like those of us in our tiny AP English class.
As for the works of today, such as literature and film, I don't believe an outsider to our country would view us as noble. However, our works do not represent the country and the people in it.; January 19, 2009 at 11:33 AM
AliSucksAtBlogging said...: Most of the works produced in the present era have an underlying ideal of nobility. Almost all works consist of a protagonist trying to help others in need. Most recently one can look at the numerous amount of superhero movies produced. In all of these, there is at least one hero who tries to do what is right to save others. Take the famous Twilight saga. Does Edward not epitomize the concept of nobility? There really are not many works created today that do not contain at least some aspect of nobility. Even the ridiculous plots of those cheap horror films usually have some hero or heroine who tries to help save the other characters.
I do believe that the nobility seen in films today seems to be rather one dimensional. Sure, the protagonists always have some sort of humanistic flaw that they have to overcome, but nine times out of ten this character succeeds. It is rare to watch a superhero movie that doesn’t have some sort of happy ending or hopeful action to give its audience a happy closure. There is an underlying ideal of nobility in films and literature produced today, but this nobility does not necessarily reflect the nobility of the real world.; January 19, 2009 at 3:02 PM
Anonymous said...: I first of all would like to apologize for not making my first post on time, Mrs. Moore; I got swept up in the excitement of my brother's graduation from the Marines and, honestly, posting totally slipped my mind.
In any event, the sense of nobility is present within Beowulf. First off, Beowulf is the epic hero; as well all know the epic hero emobodies the epitome of the values of the society that produced him. Thus, the qualities that Beowulf posesses and shows are roughly the qualities of the time period. Beowulf exemplifies his nobility when he leaps at the opportunity to save the people in Herot. He would be fighting a viscious monster whom he complacently believes could not hurt him, but does in fact slaughter many other warriors. Thus his act of nobility could also be skewed as arrogant or proud. Everyone has dual motives however. Yes, he was boasting about his abilities. Yes, he was overly confident in his abilities. He was also noble in his choice to save a city. As a skilled warrior, there were many other things he could have done to prove himself. He could have slain men for the fun of it. He could hunt large animals for no reason at all. Though Beowulf does have dual motives, he shows the nobility of the time.; January 19, 2009 at 3:17 PM
AliSucksAtBlogging said...: It’s obvious that society respects the idea of nobility. Not only are story lines created containing this underlying ideal of nobility, but also retold in the form of historical movies. Almost all historical films produced today tell the story of noble men and women who stood up and fought in one way or another in order to preserve or obtain what they believed was right. As a society, we wouldn’t create these films, or watch them if we didn’t believe in or respect our ideal of nobility. Even if reality’s nobility isn’t as defined as literature’s nobility, there is an obvious desire for pure and honest nobility in the world, and as long as that’s there we must be doing something right.; January 19, 2009 at 3:21 PM
Anonymous said...: We live in a new Era of Good Feelings, so to speak. Everything we see - books we read, movies and television shows we watch - we like to be tainted with a happy ending. Thus in the novels we read, everything from romance to action to biographical, we search for the good, the noble. Because we as readers are looking for that sort of character, if a novelist wants to sell many books, he has to give the people what they want. Pick up ten books, one from every genre, I'd give a Garlough stat and say that at least 60% of them have one noble character, or one amazingly noble deed. Dear John, by Nicholas Sparks, appeals to women. The main character gives up the love of his life so that she can be happy with another man. He also donates his fortune anonomously to save the man's life later. Desert Places, a horror story about a sociopathic killer, has a victim who refuses to hurt another before saving himself. Movies of our time reflect the same ideas. Everyone loves to get that warm fuzzy feeling that says, you know, Americans aren't that bad. If we can't squint our eyes to see the nobility in ourselves or our family, we want and need to see it within the works we produce.; January 19, 2009 at 3:25 PM
Anonymous said...: Does anyone remember when Mrs. Moore made the comment that just because there were lots of pictures of one person doesn't mean he was a god? We joked about putting up tons of pictures of Mr. Garlough so that future historians would believe we all worshipped the John Garlough. So why is it that because the stories of that time period, or the epic heros, display nobility, the culture must have been more noble as well? In my opinion, history is very subjective. You can make of it whatever you want. Of course, the present is that way as well. Alison, Stephanie, and Kyleigh (along with the majority of the class) briefly mulled over the idea that the world isn't quite so noble. Changing their minds, they decided the world is noble. Nothing has changed in the past week that would change their minds. Nobility, uncannily simliar to excellence, is however you want to see it. If Stephanie thinks it's noble to return a wallet, more power to her. In life we have to find the noble deeds and honor them. Sometimes that means we have to be noble ourself and sometimes it means we have to read about it in books. We all have to learn somewhere, right? Maybe we like to watch the noble characters in films and read about them in books because we secretly want to be more like them. Alison brought up the Twilight series; personally, I find Bella very selfless and noble. I like to read the books because they inspire me to be a little more selfless.
To find the nobility of our society, I think we have to take a micro-approach and view individuals, not our entire society. We are too diverse a people to summarize and lump up any ideas of nobility.; January 19, 2009 at 3:39 PM
Anonymous said...: Alison, I really like some of the comments you posted. Particularly when you said "the world is reliable." I too, agree. See, the thing is bad things happen; really bad things a lot of times. But, that's how it goes, and no matter what we do, people are still going to do terrible things. I'm not saying that we should stop trying to stop some of the bad things that happen, but there are times when you need to just accept that certain aspects of the world we live in today, are bad; just like any culture at any point in time. However, there are also good things that happen. Those good things get us through the day, the week, month, etc. (or at least they do for me). Yeah, life isn't all rainbows and butterflies (thank God), but it's not all brass knucles and grenades. I don't know if that makes any sense, but hey, that's just me. The same goes for nobility throughout society. Certain parts and people in today's society are noble, and some aren't. I think that most people are a pretty good medium; there are some things people do that are noble, and some things that aren't.; January 19, 2009 at 4:01 PM
Molly said...: The ideals of nobility that everyone has talked about cover a wide range of topics and while I agree with many of them, I think that your interpretation of nobility depends a lot on who you are as a person. Nobility to some people may mean rich and famous and royal. To others it may mean certain qualities that make you a "good" person. The kind of nobility that is present in the literature of today is the good qualities we find in people. How often is a book or movie given good reviews when all the noble, upstanding people are dead or defeated, and evil triumphs. That is just not the kind of nobility that we as Americans wish to see or read. In all cultures in all eras heroic figures are people who are noble and posses all the qualities that make an outstanding citizen in the culture.; January 19, 2009 at 4:07 PM
Anonymous said...: Beth I agree with you 100%. Bob Marley is a very great example of nobility. Lets face it, lots of musicians pretend to be politically and socially active. Then there are those who really are. Bob Marley really was politically and socially active. On one occasion, it almost cost him his life.
Bob Marley went nowhere that any reggae artist has gone before. Indeed, he went nowhere that any reggae artist has gone since. The Wailers were different from any other reggae band (with perhaps the exception of the Bad Brains, who are also quite phenomenal) that integrated rock elements into their sound and thus managed to extend their message beyond Jamaica.
Songs like "Trenchtown Rock" gave hope to the people of the slums of Jamaica, where he himself was born and raised. Later, he would become an ambassador to Jamaica. In this time frame he would also have an assassination attempt on his life. CIA files were later disclosed noting Bob Marley as a potential "threat". Whether there was any relation between these two things was never revealed or investigated...
In a world where fame has ruined artists and made them nothing more than narcissistic self-serving egotistical individuals, Bob Marley was a nice change. He lived in a modest mouse and drove a cheap BMW. When asked why he bought a BMW, he responded simply that he liked that the initials spelled "Bob Marley and the Wailers".
Bob Marley was the Ghandi of the musical world who not only preached but practiced as well. On the days where I am overdriven by pessimism, it's nice to give Bob Marley a listen. I have been a large fan of his music ever since I discovered them a few years after my parents divorced. Music has always been there in the hard times, and especially the wisdom of Bob Marley and the Wailers. When it seems like nothing is going your way and that everything is pitted against you including fate itself, it's nice and reassuring to hear those words sung in "Three Little Birds":
Rise up this morning,
Smile with the risin' sun
Three little birds
Pitch by my doorstep
Singin' sweet songs
Of melodies pure and true...
Singing don't worry about a thing
Because everything's gonna be alright."; January 20, 2009 at 2:01 PM
Anonymous said...: Molly has a point. The kind of story where good is defeated and evil triumphs is not the one that we like to hear. However, it's probably the most realistic one. I don't want to be taken the wrong way, I do consider myself a Christian and I believe that when it comes down to the end of this world, good will triumph over evil. So, I believe in the end good will finally have the triumph it deserves.
However, for the most part I feel that there is in fact a relation between good and evil and success. The relationship isn't necessarily what you'd expect though. Evil carries the quality of heartlessness, which carries the quality (or lack thereof) to use people for one's own advantage. Those with the quality of caring do not always realize the advantage being taken of them. In such a manner, the "evil" triumph.
It all comes down to the social-Darwinist policies that run (or rather, ruin) our everyday life. I mean no offense to you if you are a Darwinist. If you believe SCIENTIFICALLY that Darwin's theories apply to our creation, that's fine with me. Certainly there's an argument for this. But when it's applied to social and not scientific grounds...well that just creates trouble. "Survival of the fittest" may be perfectly fine for explaining the origin of species, but when it explains the mentality of how human beings treat one another, well that's just bad. But sadly this is the world we are in. We are a society based on "survival of the fittest", not "help the weakest". No, I do not mean this in the care-bear liberal way, though I'm sure it sounds like it. I believe people should do this from their hearts, not by government mandate.
Anyways, I believe it is quite common that the evil triumph over the good. Though we may not like to be reminded of it, this is the case. That is part of why we as humans do not like it, because we are REMINDED. It loses its ficticious value and becomes a reminder of reality.
Now that I have thoroughly drug myself into a pit of pessimism, I am going to take my own advice and listen to "Three Little Birds". Thanks Beth!; January 20, 2009 at 2:10 PM

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